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#1 Monica

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:33 PM

Grrrrr.
I’m after advice, kind words, reassurance, anything really as it’s doing my head in. Nina was 4 in Aprl.

Nina wasn’t the easiest kid to toilet train, wees were ok, took a while but she eventually got the hang of it. Poo on the other hand not so great. She would hold it til the last second then not make it to the toilet on time. She would sit under the dining room table and go in her undies. She was also the queen on the aquaturd. All normal behaviour from what I gather. We started night time training her at the beginning of the year and she wet every night for a solid 3 weeks or so, then it clicked and we’ve had the odd wet night since. Cue a few months ago and she started pooing in bed! I would always get to it after it had just been done (within an hour of going to sleep so I knew to keep checking) so it very well contained with little mess, quite traumatic for both of us though. Anyway, that happened probably once a week until last week and other than Saturday night, it’s happened every night and even twice in once night!!!!
She is still putting off going but I can usually persuade her to sit on the toilet before her bath. If she can’t go, often she will ask for the potty once in the bath (toilet at the other end of the house) and get out and go on there just fine. She did however do a little in the bath last night and the night before that. She went to the toilet as normal yesterday afternoon (actually took herself without prompting) and after the bath incidence I thought there was no way she would go in bed last night. Wrong! I was still awake at midnight and she began fussing around (we co-sleep). I shone my torch on her to find her sitting up straining to go – she was awake. I was furious. It’s become so frequent that I’m finding it hard to contain my anger.

If you got through that, thanks for reading (yuck).

My thoughts – Since husband and I separated the frequency of the bed accidents (only ever poo, never wee) have definitely increased. Last week was particularly traumatic as I had to go and get Nina from her father as I felt he was in no state to be caring for her (accidents have happened every night since then). Is it stress related? She has also started grinding her teeth in her sleep very violently. This too points to stress. And if it is stress can I be hard on her?
I told her that when she does it, there is no iphone the next day (she has an old one with no sim but has a few games on it and it’s quietly obsessed). She is old enough to know it’s not acceptable and it was happening before the separation so I’m in two minds if it’s stress or laziness.

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#2 aChocLover

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:57 PM


Aww, poor Nina and poor you!

Whilst we didn't have poo incidents, I did find that the girls would favour the potty over the toilet for pooing. It was like they were fearful of the long drop!

Honestly, I think from what you've written I'd agree that it sounds like it is stress related. I think it's very hard to hide the frustrations/anger/disappointment, but in this instance you might need to work patiently with her.

Do you have a reward system going? New undies? New apps?! Sort of focus on the times she does get it right? It's incredibly hard sad.gif

Hope it all gets better soon x


#3 Gretch

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:27 PM

You poor things. We have a reluctant pooer here and it's so frustrating. It is a lot better of late but it was worse during times of stress so you might be onto something there.

T seemed scared to go so we started being very reassuring about it rather than getting angry (so hard) or saying things like "everyone has to poo". I even sat and held his hand while he went a few times or told him funny stories as he went (pleasant!). We also used the tablet as a reward - do a poo for angry birds, yeah!

I had a chat to the GP to rule out anything medical and for reassurance as well. Good luck smile.gif.

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#4 Mel B

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:31 PM

I agree with ACL, I would err on the side of stress related. You're staying with family at the moment aren't you? Is there anything about their toilet/bathroom that she might find unpleasant or scary - is it cold, dark, a long way away from everyone? That could make her reluctant to go, then she goes to sleep, relaxes, nature takes its course...

Rosie struggled with TT for poo as she was scared of letting it go in the toilet/potty. It was 6 months after wee training that she finally would poo without a nappy on. Then we had 3+ years of no problem. Early this year she started to suffer from constipation due to not enough fluid and fibre. When she would finally go it was painful, so she became anxious about it.

We got on top of the constipation but the anxiety remained. Like Nina, she would go at night. Luckily for me she would wake up and actually go to the toilet but it was disrupting her sleep (and mine - she needed comforting due to the anxiety sad.gif )

She was 7 years old and while she understood what I was saying to her - it doesn't hurt any more, there's nothing to be afraid of - anxiety is a powerful emotion.

I did get mad with her a couple of times but that made the anxiety worse. In the end good old fashioned bribery has worked. We've introduced bravery points - 1 point for doing a poo during the night with no fuss (we used to have screaming at midnight wacko.gif ) and 2 points for a poo before bedtime. She earns them for other things as well and once she has 5 points she can get a beanie boo toy (her current fave). She's overcome the anxiety and in the last week has started actually pooing in daylight hours - hooray!

Good luck, I completely understand how stressful it is.

QUOTE(Gretch @ Aug 27 2013, 06:27 PM) View Post

I even sat and held his hand while he went a few times or told him funny stories as he went (pleasant!).


Oh yes I've been there! Let me tell you that a 7 year old's poo after several days of holding it in is not pleasant! DH gags just walking past the bathroom, and there I was sat right in front of her holding her hands. The things you do for love tongue.gif
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#5 flowerrose

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:55 PM

Oh, it's so frustrating isn't it?!

We've been through this stage by degree with both of ours at some point or another. Ethan was by far the worst. He would try and hide it or sort it out himself and it went EVERYWHERE! Nothing like a shit smearing non-talker to get tongues wagging, let me tell you! We had months and months without any issues at all but he was just waiting for the opportunity to crap in a really good pool. That was an awesome call to make to housekeeping at the five star hotel. My youngest nephew was much the same.

Believe me, I feel your pain. In my experience nothing but time solves the problem. There are things you can do to encourage it but remember they are just little dots and, whilst Nina may be very mature in many respects, they often lack the ability to understand or explain what is going on. Whether it turns out to be stress related or not I am very much in the camp of not making a big deal out of it either way - no discipline and no reward. It is what it is until she gets over it. Just quietly change her and pop her back to bed.


#6 Monica

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:29 PM

Hmmmm I knew I was being too hard on her sad.gif
I'm going to talk to her tonight about a reward chart, no poo in bed for a week and we're going bowling. New apps is a good idea too AC, thanks.

She dances and jiggles around all afternoon and farts like a trooper so I know she needs to go. I don't think there is anything about my parents toilet that bothers her. I was out in the yard yesterday and came inside to check on her and she had sat herself on there. I've asked her if it hurts and she says no.

In the grand scheme of things I'm incredibly happy with the way she's taken the split so I guess I really shouldn't be cross.
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#7 AK2

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:30 PM

You've both been through a lot in the last few months, and stress always comes out in unique ways in kids.

When Will was having issues, we'd pick up a few gross books about poo and bums- he now loves poo and adores doing them in the toilet so he can inspect them properly (boys!).

#8 CRose

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:34 PM

I am flying in and out of here tonight but I HEAR YOU! Exactly the same story for us. Annabelle turns out to suffer chronic constipation, diet can't fix it - she is on lactulose syrup (you can just get it from the chemist, pretty harmless stuff) - go see your GP get her on it, finally after nearly 18 months of accidents/cajoling/threats/rewards/crying (me and her), as long as she has it everyday she is ok, can get a bit blocked up and we go hard with lots of fruit and prune juice as well as a lot of encouragement, because she knows it doesn't hurt everytime she is more willing to try and literally this week, instead of squirming/hiding (even got to hiding soiled knickers sad.gif) and getting embarassed at daycare she has been running off herself and then calling out for a bottom wipe - hooray!

Like Mel said the anxiety remained a lot longer than the constipation, seriously I had no idea she was constipated not until after it didn't hurt anymore would she admit it used to or sometimes still hurt - TMI but her poos have never been nuggetty rather really really sticky, so whether it is to do with her holding on and avoiding I don't know. We are waiting for a paed appointment to work out a long term plan. It might be stress for Nina but if she is holding on she may have gotten a little blocked up, something to move things along might help with the symptoms, time and lots of love will help with the stress xxxx


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#9 *Lib**

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:48 PM

We had constipation issues for ages so I can't help you, but I do understand the frustration of doing things over and over and nothing changing sad.gif I hope she can manage it soon x
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#10 chelley

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:51 AM

We had a lot of bowel issues with Raya. She got toileting in terms of weeing soo quickly it totally did my head in why she was still soiling. When we went to the paed, who referred us to the gastro paed they both said people wait too long to address the issue.

Raya was put on Movicol Jnr, over the counter, non irritative. It doesn't change the muscles of the bowel it just draws water into the stool. Even though Raya had never complained of pain, didn't strain etc she held on at daycare because she was anxious and this got her blocked up.

More than being 'blocked up' the specialist explained it as the bowel gets stretched so kids find it hard to feel the sensation in time. Apparently there are two sphincters - one we can control and one automatic one. This is why kids who are anxious can sit straining to go and then still not be able too.

Raya never did nocturnal poos but the specialist did say this is a very common when it is stress.

The best thing was to communicate about what her body is doing. Draw diagrams. Explain why her body wants to go when she in bed. Lots of repetitive, clear discussion. The specialist actually suggested no reward and no punishment and they were right. Less reward was actually more successful combined with the dr giving the talk and not just mum and dad.
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#11 Arial

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:56 AM

There is a great resource online called Sneaky Poo
It is written for children who are having toileting issues.
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#12 nephthys

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:20 PM

I can't offer any advice as we have no poo issues but wee ones. We've been TT wees for 640 days (that's not a typo). It's so hard not to get cross and I will admit in moments I've been unfairly harsh on him, but 21 months tests your patience.

Could you try putting her back in pull-ups for bed? It'll probably set back her night training, but she might be more comfortable?

Anyway, I'm just letting you know you're not alone. xx
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