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Another day sleep question


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#1 nephthys

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:15 PM

Why is sleep so emotive? tongue.gif laugh.gif

It's never been an issue getting DS1 to sleep of a night time, even as a tiny baby; it's keeping him asleep after midnight that's always been the problem. That is until a few months ago. We've kept up our strict bed time routine as always and at 7:30 he's tucked into bed - although now he doesn't go to sleep until after 9pm most nights. He stays in bed but yells and tantrums for us for that entire time. We started to go in to resettle and unfortunately he's gotten used to that now, too. Tonight he's only just quietened and it's nearly 10pm.

So a friend suggested this week that we should drop his day sleep and I'm afraid she might be right. He still sleeps very solidly during his day sleeps for about two hours so I think he still needs them. He goes down between 12:30 - 1pm and I've tried bringing it forward to 12:00 and later until 1:30-2pm with the same bed time results.

Plus, I rely heavily on his sleep times. DS1 is clingy, doesn't play independently and is a bit destructive (like most toddlers!) so I really look forward to that break so I can get things done - like housework, look after DS2, run my business and if I'm really organised, I have a nap to make up for the broken nights.

So I was hoping for some opinions please. I'm not ready drop it yet as I'm not sure how I'd cope with a challenging toddler and a newborn all day. I'm currently seeing someone for PND and mild anxiety and I have no family around to give me a break, so those couple of hours are important. BUT, these late nights are ridiculous and he gets so cranky because he's only getting 9-ish hours of sleep a night which isn't enough for a two year old.

Unless someone can suggest ways of getting him to bed earlier? I try to get as much exercise into him as I can but it's not always possible to run him ragged every day. Even on his day care day he still won't settle until late.

Thanks everyone. smile.gif

ETA: On the upside - he rarely wakes between midnight and 5am any more! wacko.gif biggrin.gif
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#2 Mel B

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:25 PM

I'm afraid I can't give you the advice you want to hear. We went through exactly the same issue with Rosie starting at age 2.5. For 2-3 mths I despaired of going in and out of her room for 2 hrs every night before she finally went to sleep, and hated that I had to get really cross with her before she stopped calling for us.

I was also very keen to keep the daytime sleep going as I had a 1 yr old as well! And she went to sleep so easily and slept so well during the day that I was convinced she needed it. But thinking back she was just making up for the sleep she lost at the start of every night! I just always assumed that she would start to fight the day sleep when she didn't need it, so it took me a while to work out what was happening.

We dropped the sleep, she started going off to sleep easily at 7pm every night and sleeping for 12 hrs. The break that I lost during the day was made up for by regaining pleasant and relaxed evenings with my husband and actually eating a hot meal in one sitting.

Good luck with your decision, it's a hard one!

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#3 nephthys

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:43 PM

Thanks Mel, that does make sense. It's not what I was hoping to hear but I think you're right. Plus I was just thinking that if he's getting a longer sleep at night, he might not be so hard to deal with during the day.

Bah.
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#4 mango

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:11 PM

I agree. I think you might need to cut the day sleep. Have you tried cutting how long he can sleep during the day back. So instead of letting him sleep for the 2 hours maybe just give him an hour and wake him up. That might be enough to give you a break and for him to go down well at night. Or maybe to get him into bed early start waking him earlier in the morning, unless hes already waking early. I did have a poll about how much sleep your 2.5yo is getting. I think the average was about 11-12 hours total. It was handy to see that what my DS was doing wasn't a lot lower then other kids. he averaged 10-11hrs. In the end whatever ends up happening just remember not to stress about it, you will cope and find a new rhythm.

#5 BeenTooLong

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:22 PM

Nathan had been a terrible sleeper until just before he was 3 (maybe a month off) and we dropped the day sleep, and this happened:

QUOTE(Mel B @ Oct 30 2011, 07:25 PM) View Post

We dropped the sleep, she started going off to sleep easily at 7pm every night and sleeping for 12 hrs. The break that I lost during the day was made up for by regaining pleasant and relaxed evenings with my husband and actually eating a hot meal in one sitting.


Except it was more like 11 hours, but just as great!

I struggled with giving up the day sleep too, I wanted him to keep it up as he would sleep soundly for 2 hours, giving me a break with Emily (who in the end was sleeping at the same time so I had a lovely 2 hour break during the day).

Now he has "quite time", I put on a DVD and he sits on his chair or the floor on a pillow and is usually quite for at least an hour. If I sit with him we can get thru the whole movie, but of course, nothing else gets done...

If I had known the nightime would be better after giving up the day sleep I would have done it sooner. But I think it was just 'his time', maybe earlier would not have worked.

All I can say is try, and if it doesn't work, go back to the day sleep. Good luck!



#6 scasey77

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:19 PM

Yep - I would cut some day sleep too. Have you tried just doing an hour instead of 2? Or even 1.5 hours? I wouldn't cut it completely straight off but try cutting it down. I think at that age Cate was doing 1.5 hours from 1:30 to 3pm and going to bed at 7pm. She then quickly dropped down to an hour from 2-3pm thereafter and stayed with that for ages.
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#7 ~steph~

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:22 AM

We had the same issue with H when he was 2 & 1/2 (when I was 6 months pregnant with A dry.gif ) We ended up having to cut the day sleep totally, it really sucked, however fighting him to go to sleep at 11pm also sucked!

With A we have cut his sleeps back to 1 hour, he sleeps solidly but we wake him after an hour, means he still goes to bed at 8pmish but doesn't wake to party at 3am blink.gif

Good luck. Sometimes cutting the day sleep or even shortening it can be a little hard for the first few days while he adjusts which isn't what you wanted to hear!!!

PS Sorry you are struggling sad.gif
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#8 nephthys

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 11:11 AM

Hi guys, thanks so much for taking the time to write. wub.gif

I think I'll try cutting it down rather than out to begin with because at midday he starts rubbing his eyes and telling me he's tired, so keeping him up for another seven hours would be too much for him at this age I think.

Steph: The years of poor sleep have finally caught up to me! They do say sleep deprivation drives you batty. laugh.gif
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#9 ~steph~

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE(nephthys @ Oct 31 2011, 11:11 AM) View Post

I think I'll try cutting it down rather than out to begin with because at midday he starts rubbing his eyes and telling me he's tired, so keeping him up for another seven hours would be too much for him at this age I think.

Steph: The years of poor sleep have finally caught up to me! They do say sleep deprivation drives you batty. laugh.gif


Batty? What? never! laugh.gif Sleep deprivation explains a lot about me!!! Hope at least Master H is behaving on the sleep front.

Yeah I would cut his sleep back a bit, it might take a few changes to find the sweet spot of exactly how long to let him sleep for.
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#10 Mel B

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 12:12 PM

Actually I completely forgot (and it was only last year blink.gif ) that I was able to cut Eddie back to an hour and keep the day sleep going for an extra 6 mths or so. Second time around I was ready for the bedtime battle and knew what it meant. So of course Eddie never had a problem going to sleep at night, but he started to wake up at 5am every day!! Bloody kids... tongue.gif
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#11 nephthys

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 07:17 PM

Am hearin' ya Mel! laugh.gif I did let him sleep his full sleep for today because I wasn't well so tonight I shut all the lights off 30 mins before bedtime, read him several books in a whisper while rubbing his head and we had a long snuggle. When I left, he yelled for only 30 mins! Huge difference. I'll definitely cut down his day sleep still but like Steph said, we may be able to find a magic combination and no lose it yet. Thank goodness! smile.gif

Steph: Master H is a better sleeper by a little bit and is a more settled personality. B has always been very highly strung and demanding right from the beginning. Bah, kids... who'd have em? wub.gif laugh.gif

Thanks everyone. It's really helped to get your advice. I nearly didn't write so I wouldn't sound like a whinger but it's been great.
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#12 Porthos

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 07:48 PM

Good luck Nep! I hope cutting the day sleep down a bit gives you the desired results: a break in the day AND no (or less) battles at bed time.

FWIW we cut the day sleep and had great results at night....but still have times when it takes her ages to get to sleep at night and she fights it etc. I would say 95% of the time she is wonderful at heading to bed and 5% of the time we get grief / tantrums / calling out etc etc. So there was no 100% perfect answer for me...but I'll take 95%, it's close enough!! biggrin.gif No day sleep for Cate also means she's in bed by 6pm in winter and 7pm in summer - pure bliss for kid free grown up time at night wink.gif

#13 Framboise

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 12:10 PM

Just my two cents... I'm with the others, I think you have to think about dropping sleep time and having 'you' time in the evening instead.

If Harry (now 3 1/2) has a day sleep he'll still be awake at 9.30-10pm. If he doesn't then he is asleep by 6pm! laugh.gif It was very hard giving up that time during the day ....but now it is designated TV time laugh.gif Jamie still sleeps (he is nearly 2) and Harry and I just vege out then and watch TV for an hour or two. That rest time seems to tide him over most days.

Annoyingly, our daycare puts them all down for a 'rest' regardless of age so on daycare days he'll inevitably fall asleep and then we have the late evening. I used to try with the usual bedtime thing but then he'd be in there for 2 or 3 hours awake! Poor kid. Not his fault daycare has a stupid rule.


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#14 VictoriaK

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 02:40 PM

Unftunately everything you have written is what our DS did when he was ready to drop his day sleep. I didnt reAlise at first and was getting frustrated by him nOt going to sleep till after 10pm he was in his bed but just wouldnt go to slerp, someone suggested trying to cut out his daysleep and he went straight back to going to sleep at 7:30 and we havent looked back. This was when my youngest was about 4-5 months old and i agree it sucks not getting that time to yourself in the daytime but to be honest i would rather that than the stress we were goimg through at night trying to get him to bed. That said i am jealius of my friend whose 3.5 year old still sleeps in the day though she does have
craP with him during the night which i dont so i guess it all equals out

And as the others said, i hsve 'me' time at 7:30 when both kids are in bed and its also great to sit down and spend time with DH without spending that time trying to fight a kid to go to bed. I am also a believer in quiet time. When DD has her arvo sleep, i put Aidan in our room to watch his shows while i watch my soapies (lol) for an hour.

Its hard at first, i really mourned the lost sleep and they do tend to be a bit ratty too when they drop it around the time they would usually go down but after a few weeks it all settles down and it becomes a normal part of life and you do what works for you
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#15 Woodland

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:26 PM

Hey Nep just checking up on how you went with cutting down or dropping your sons day sleep? My DS is going to be 3 in 3 months time and has started to resist and make excuses for his day sleep. Im wondering if its time to cut out the day nap? How did you get on in the end?
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