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Save Our Sleep - Tizzie Hall


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#976 Tigridia

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 07:13 AM

Sara, thanks for that.

We had a problem with cold a couple of months back but think we have that solved now. I usually try resettling before feeding but sometimes it's clear she wants food and given we've had heaps of weight issues I always feed if she doesn't resettle. This always means the 7am feed is a struggle given she isn't hungry again.

I'm ok with 6am or after to start the day and a lot of the time I can resettle her til then but the last couple of weeks it's been around 5-5.30 which is just too early and makes her really cranky for the rest of the day. The last week or so she has been determined not to have the 4.30 nap, which I'm ok about if there is enough sleep during the day but getting up at 5am she is revolting by 4.30 and needs the nap and won't have it under any circumstances. So not pretty.

I went hardcore on her yesterday when she woke at 5am and fed in the bedroom and put her back to bed. Cue 1 hour of much protesting and getting worked up but she went back to sleep at 6.40 and got 20 mins before I woke her. It wasn't pretty but she was slightly better yesterday and I managed to get her to have 30 mins of the arvo nap. This morning was another 5am wake up and she went back to sleep after 15 mins and only about 5 mins of actual whingeing. I might have just goten lucky but I won't complain. Lets hope today goes better!

The thing you said about the morning sleep counting towards the night sleep was interesting. I guess when she has been getting up really early I've been letting her back to bed early as she is tired but I might try keeping her up even if it's a long time and see if that helps.

kerry, yay for getting a sleep in the pram!
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#977 scasey77

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:52 PM

Great news Tigridia. Hope the resettling in the mornings continues to get better. I have definitely found that thing re the morning sleeps to be true for my kids at various times. May not be the case for all bubs but I know Tizzie has found it with a large % of them. I think that is why I found sticking really strictly to the routine times for 2-3 weeks when first starting to be beneficial. God it was tough at times keeping them up but worth it in the long run. I have been lucky though to never have too many phases of really bad ER.

Kerry - how has your resettling gone over the last day or to?
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#978 jadetauber

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 07:59 PM

I need some help too girls please!! My DS is 4.5 months and has been a catnapper since maybe 10 weeks. Im doing the routines and have got him back to having a 2 hr morning sleep but the next sleep is still only 40 mins. Ive got the bedding guide and am following that, hes on solids so its not hunger, he self settles at the beginning of a sleep in less then 5 mins and apart from that I have no idea what to do! Ive tried then putting him in the car or pram but he still doesnt go back to sleep! any ideas??

#979 scasey77

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:05 PM

Jade - which routine are you following? The starting solids to 6.5 months one? I would be inclined to leave in his bed to resettle rather than getting out to settle elsewhere at this stage as he is obviously self settling OK at beginning of sleeps and if doing 2 hours in the morning he can resettle. It might just be a case of needing to tweak the routine a little. Can you list down your exact routine - including times, amounts eaten, bedding/clothing worn to bed etc - everything you can think of and I will see if anything sticks out.
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#980 Decembergirl

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:45 PM

Resettling has been a no go here. Today she's had two 40 minute sleeps and that's it. It's impossible for us to even follow the routines because she falls asleep on the boob and won't wake, then wakes screaming for food. I really give up, I simply can't make her resettle. sad.gif
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#981 Tigridia

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 06:43 AM

Oh Kerry that sucks sad.gif It sounds like Anna is just cat napping because she isn't getting a full feed due to falling asleep while feeding?

We had similar problems with Astrid not taking a full feed and being impossible to wake up. We tried the stripping her off, tickling her feet, blowing on her face tricks but they didn't work. I assume you've tried all of that? My other suggestions (which you may not want to do) is to express off part of a feed and when she falls asleep give her the EBM in a bottle. I found Astrid was impossible to breastfeed when asleep or really tired/sleepy but I could about half the time get her to take a bottle. I think if you could get enough food into her in one go she might be easier to resettle? Might be worth a try?


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#982 Decembergirl

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 09:38 AM

Thanks Nic. smile.gif

I've managed to get her to resettle this morning by taking her straight out of her cot after she woke at the 40 minute mark, and putting her into the capsule, covered with a wrap. There's been the odd squawk, but nothing major. I'll get her up at 11 and see how we go this afternoon.

I actually think one of our BF issues is her attachment (and therefore lack of hindmilk), which is having an impact on her sleep. I've got an LC coming to see us later this week and hope to get the attachment sorted once and for all.
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#983 mango

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:43 AM

I have always been a reader of this thread as it intrigued me but was never something I could implement with DS (bad reflux that we couldn't get under control), but kept reading in hope of picking up some hints and tips. Now I have DD and although she has bad reflux she is on a combination of medicines and we have it mostly under control, I would like to try to structure her days into a routine.

I had picked up "The contented baby book" Gina Ford for couple of $ and liked alot that I read in it. Although we had no success with the little routines due to DD's reflux, I was suprised to see how little sleep is writen into the "older" bubs routine. I then read somewhere on Ido someone else thought the same thing now use SOS because it had more days sleep. So I dug around and found the 3month - staring solids routine and tried to follow it yesterday. What I want to change waking before 7, cutting the early morning feed more content thru the day (She is a catnapper although it didn't bother me that much, I'm just grateful I was getting day sleep, it was non-existant with DS).

Yesterday went well, she was compliant. I didn't quite start the full day on SOS (I didn't get the routine till after the morning started) so our day looked like this.
6 she woke. Feed (got routine about here so tried to make it work from here)
845 feed
9 sleep
10 resettle
11 up
12 feed
1 sleep
2 resettle
3 up and feed
445 went for walk, she went to sleep about 5 dozed till 530.
6 bath
630 feed
6:50 sleep (I couldn't wake her properly to put to bed fully awake but she did have her eyes open).

I'm happy with how our day went but then the night went to a shitter, is that normal?
previously 7 bed, between 10:30&11:30 feed, one wake some where early morning for more of a settle feed, then awake usually around 6am. Last night was 7 bed, 9:30 screaming so settled with a feed, 11:30 same thing, again at 130 and 330 then awake at 5:45 trying to start the day but didn't get her up till 6:45 after unsuccessfully trying to settle her. I have since tried to feed her the 7 feed but she is quite reluctant, she has taken oneside now (BF), but I wonder if that has to do with her meds aswell, 15mls before 7am feed.

I'm going to see how we go on this routine and if it starts to work out I'll suck it up and buy the book to read it fully, but think I have it pretty well covered over the 3years of reading on here.

Any advice would be appreciated.

#984 scasey77

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:36 PM

Kerry - will be interesting to see what the LC says. Falling asleep in the boob could definitely mean not full enough for a long sleep.

Jazy - I would be inclined to tweak your routine before bedtime a little bit to see if you can get her going to bed fully awake. Hopefully that would help your nights. Of course it is early days so I would give the routine a good week to see if things settle down. With the bedtime side of things - how long does she take to feed? You need to make sure you finish your feed 20min before bed time so she can really wake up before bed and not associate bedtime with feeding. If you think she is too tired to take the full feed before bed you could try doing half feed before bath and then half feed after bath to see if that helps.

Also, at her age I would probably try to only feed on the 2nd wake if she continues waking that regularly. So basically unless it has been 4 hours since last feed I would try to resettle in other ways if possible on the first wake and then feed on the 2nd - even if that is only 40min later.

Is she self settling at this stage or are you helping her to sleep?
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#985 Swarles Barkley

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:46 PM

Sara, can I pick your brain a little?

Eliza is 5 months old, but we haven't got her on solids yet, so we are following to 10+ week routine.
*What do I do if she wakes at 6.30am?
*When she has a sleep and wakes after one cycle, do I pat her for 22 minutes before moving to the pram for a walk or just straight to the pram? And what if she doesn't go back to sleep? (today I patted for 22 minutes then we went on a walk (she was still wrapped and I put a blanket over the pram) and she screamed for the entire 45 minutes we were out.
*What kind of mattress protector do you use if you don't use a waterproof one? Eliza is a very hot child, and sweats overnight, so I took off the protectors as that could have been making her hot, and have one of those Connie pads under her sheet, however I don't know if there is a better alternative.
*Naps - does she need to be wrapped or can I put her in her rocker as is, in a quiet spot?

I was going to ask about dummies, but I have managed to get her to sleep twice without one, so we will see how that continues.
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#986 mango

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 03:33 PM

Thanks Sara. I’ll try to move her sleep forward a little and into the lounge room. I had been feeding her in her/our room for the night time feed as a cue for bed time. Oops. Last nights wake ups were out of character and she would not settle with out a feed. I think your right though and I’ll allow her some time for everything to settle down. Feeding-wise its quite a change for her. Because of her reflux we had been doing split feeds and as of last week, once I got her meds sorted better, we moved to mostly 3 hourly. For a feed it can be anywhere from 15-45mins, depends how committed she is to it. Lol.
She is not quite 100% SS. I put her down, then a little rock with my hand on her pelvis if she is grissling otherwise I just say “sweet dreams” and take a step back. She is usually asleep moments after I put her down even with her grissle, so that’s pretty good and mostly doing it herself. When I need to resettle her it takes a dummy, rock and about 5mins, so again not too bad, I’ll work on taking the dummy away in a couple of days when she is use to me trying to resettle her, because that is new too.


#987 scasey77

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 10:21 PM

QUOTE(Swarles Barkley @ Nov 2 2011, 01:46 PM) View Post

Sara, can I pick your brain a little?

Eliza is 5 months old, but we haven't got her on solids yet, so we are following to 10+ week routine.
*What do I do if she wakes at 6.30am?
*When she has a sleep and wakes after one cycle, do I pat her for 22 minutes before moving to the pram for a walk or just straight to the pram? And what if she doesn't go back to sleep? (today I patted for 22 minutes then we went on a walk (she was still wrapped and I put a blanket over the pram) and she screamed for the entire 45 minutes we were out.
*What kind of mattress protector do you use if you don't use a waterproof one? Eliza is a very hot child, and sweats overnight, so I took off the protectors as that could have been making her hot, and have one of those Connie pads under her sheet, however I don't know if there is a better alternative.
*Naps - does she need to be wrapped or can I put her in her rocker as is, in a quiet spot?

I was going to ask about dummies, but I have managed to get her to sleep twice without one, so we will see how that continues.



Have you decided to wait for solids or are you planning on introducing soon. You may know that Tizzie recommends starting at around 16 weeks old. From memory one of the main reasons is so that by 6 months old they are moving onto meats to get more iron as bubs iron stores start to deplete around that time. You could give it a try and see how you go. Might just fill her up that bit more and would eliminate hunger as a possible issue causing her to wake at the 40min mark.

Personally if my kids woke at 6:30 am I tried to leave them in their bed if they were just protesting. On the odd ocassion they would resettle, in which case I would give them 20min and then get them up (even if that was after 7am) as per Tizzie's advice. If they didn't resettle I would get them up at 7 and feed. If they were really cracking it I would get them up but not feed until as close to 7am as possible.

How long has Eliza been on the routines? Is she self settling at beginning of sleeps? The getting up and resettling elsewhere should only be used in the beginning when you are first trying to teach them to self settle. The premise is that you can't expect them to resettle in the middle of sleeps if they haven't mastered self settling at the beginning of sleeps. If she is settling OK at beginning of sleeps without you then I would just leave her in her bed to resettle when she wakes at 40min mark. As a general rule I used to give my kids 30-40min to resettle - esp at the beginning whilst they were learning. I never went in to pat as when I did try it made things worse so I just left them to it. Very very hard though. If you are going to get her up to resettle elsewhere you do it straightaway. If she then doesn't go back to sleep you need to try and keep her up until the next sleep time (or to within 20min of it if possible). Of course a completely overtired baby does not settle well so it is a bit of a fine line sometimes.

Also, as I have said before you do need to look at her being cold as a possible reason for waking at 40min mark. It is one of the most common reasons.

Mattress protectors - Tizzie says to use 100% cotton. She sells some called Bambi I think. As with most things she recommends though they are expensive. I didn't buy any. Just didn't use a mattress protector. If you have a spewy baby you could put a cotton towel underneath the fitted sheet

Naap - yep wrap and use bedding as you would in the cot. Obviously not the same amount of blankets as rockers/prams etc are usually more closed in so probably warmer with less airflow.

Hope I have answered everything

Jazy - let us know how tonight goes.
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#988 Tigridia

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:38 AM

Well, not sure if the putting back to the bed earlier in the week worked or not but she slept til 6.30am this morning. If only this would continue. Of course I was awake at 5 unsure.gif

I need to work on the self settling more still because I tend to stay and pat but since we are simultaenously moving to the cot for day sleeps I don't want to put her through too much at once. I know she can self settle though so I'm trying to stay out of the room til she really cracks it.


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#989 mango

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:18 AM

Tig - thats great she slept till 6:30 for you, I can't wait to get that back. Bugger that you woke at 5. Its always the way isn't it. Its like your body wake in antisipation.

We had a mixed day yesterday, but overall I would say good. She is SS better.
545 awake, did not resettle
645 up
7 tried to feed not very committed, but she had some
I can't remember middle of the day
1pm went down without a fuss
before 2, she kept needing resettling till finally going back for a bit then had to wake her.
430 went for a walk, she feel asleep with no whinging beforehand. she had about 15 mins woke while at the playground for DS and cracked it for the walk back home.
I mixed up the night because we had DH's family coming over because DHs birthday. (completely irrelevant but they planned to come over so they could see Aly awake, but didn't get here till 6 and wonder why she is grumpy, really? end of day and needs her night feed! Anyway).
530 bath hasn't happy about it so it was like 2secs
6 BF one side, Then some cuddles with the ILs where she screamed at them ( laugh.gif )
645 other side and into bed. I did the 2nd side in our room to help settle her down.
7 bed SS
820 whinged, went and stood near cot, she SS
9:15 resettle I think with dummy
1030 woke, feed
11 bed and needed settling
330 feed, straight back to bed no fuss, she SS
545 awake but I left her thinking it was 645 until i heard hubby outside. I still let her make noise she wasn't cracking it, until DH came in to say good bye 630, he settled her with the dummy twice (before and after saying goodbye to me)
730 we slept in, oops. she has had a small feed again, but instead just spent the last half hour screaming at me. wacko.gif

I'm unsure my plan of attack to fix my sleepin or if i should try a feed again sooner because of the lack of one at 7 (30).

#990 Swarles Barkley

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:39 AM

Thanks Sara! We are waiting to start solids at 6 months and do BLW. I don't think she is waking due to hunger, as she has always been a 3-4 hour eater.

I have only started Eliza on the routines this week. Previous to this we had been doing a mixture of the Baby Whisper and whatever I made up on the day. At the start of the sleep she has sort of self-settled, but i have needed to pat her to calm her down. Today however I didn't even need to walk in there. Previously some sleeps she would self-settle, others she wouldn't. She can do it, just depends on if she wants to do it rolleyes.gif Because we never left her to cry I have decided to start at waiting 2 minutes for a few days, then 4, until she gets to where she needs to be according to her age. I didn't want to throw her in the deep end straight away though.

Last night I dressed her in a singlet, a winter pj jumpsuit and a 2.5 tog grobag. I then wrapped over the top of it with a woombie and put 4 layers of blanket on her, and she slept through to 5.45am Which I was happy with. It did mean that I had to get up and settle her though, which was a failed attempt and she got up at 6.30 for a cuddle in our bed. I didn't feed until 7 though.

Thanks for your help Sara smile.gif
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