Firstly - what is control crying??

Secondly - I am having this nightmare baby issue at the moment - he is a dream at night - but during the day I cannot get him to sleep unless he is rocked and put in the cot, which means he goes to sleep in my arms then wakes up again in the cot - I thought it would pass, but alas, no - so today I have started to let him cry a little in bed - sleepy but not asleep - he cries and I reassure him then leave for three minutes then go back in, reassure, but don't pick up (as would normally have done), pop the dummy back in stroke his tummy and then leave again etc etc.

He has just now stopped crying and is hopefully asleep after about 20 minutes of this - but is this control crying? - I only ever leave him for 3 minutes max (that's all I can cope with ) - and is this ok? I feel like I am being cruel letting him cry - but in reality they are only moans - not the shrill he had when he had his immunisations.

I have the No Cry Sleep Solution book (Thanks Emm ) but have only read a little of it - I know what I have done today probably isn't in its vein of thinking - is what I've done ok?

Also - what is the go with the 3 month mark??? Morgan seems to be more alert and responsive (angel) but the flip side is this menace of a baby when sleep time comes during the day - he is so buggered, eyes drooping etc, but just won't go off by himself.

Thanks

Sounds to me like controlled crying.

Only you know if you feel okay with it.

I don't use controlled crying bc I don't like it but each parent has to find methods that they like to use.

I've been doing a lot of reading about controlled crying myself, but I haven't really wanted to bring it up because I'm sure it would just turn into a heated debate.

So I'll be interested in the replies to this....

I guess what we do is called controlled crying, which is what you have described in your post. Honestly you do what you think is best for you and your baby, damn what anyone else thinks...

What you are doing is exactly what we were taught to do at the day stay place we went to.

At the beginnging if Hayden was just whingy crying then we would wait 3 minutes before going in to comfort him, he will usually have stopped after about a minute, if he was hysterical of course we go in to him... We started to really listen to his crys, sometimes he just has to 'talk' about how tired he is and how he wants to go to sleep and the last thing he wants is for us to interact with him as it wakes him up more. Another thing we learnt was that he would actually cry in his sleep so going to him would wake him up and unsettle him and if he was crying in his sleep it wouldn't last too long!

These days he knows if he wants us all he has to do is scream and we are there, but he very rarely does this now - in fact it freaks us out if he does cause it is so rare!!!!

I think this is what Morgan was just doing - his eyes were shut, but he was almost moaning or whinging - it sounded like a last ditch effort for a cry, but he couldn't even be bothered crying he was so tired IYKWIM.

Thanks Steph - I was feeling bad and rather exposed posting this - I don't want to sound like a mother who just heartlessly listens to her baby cry - but it was either he cry in his cot or in my arms, either way he was going to cry.

I think my problem was that I would rock him to sleep in my arms then put him down, and if he cried I'd immediately pick him up - I never tried to settle him in his cot - or never gave him enough time to settle himself in his cot.

Anyway - he has gone to sleep now - fingers crossed it's for the few hours he needs ..

I think it is CC, but not on the extreme - CC intervals usually increase a minute at a time. If you feel comfortable with it, then do it.

Are the cries sleepy cries?? Or stressed/out of control cries? I was PARANOID about the kids crying when I put them down - I had some stupid concept that you'd put a baby down and they'd go straight to sleep My mum had to come and talk some sense into me, and kids sometimes do have a little bit of a cry to settle themselves down.

Lachlan did until he was about 8 months old, and Alannah only cries for a couple of minutes before falling asleep - but I'm talking sleepy cries. Initially they were out of control cries, and we'd go in after a couple of minutes and settle them down a little, but after a few days, that habit broke, and they usually go straight to sleep now when they're put down.

Yep its a form of CC. It sounds like exactly what we are doing, only I stroke his forehead and down his nose when I go to resettle as this make him shut his eyes and each time i do it his eyes get heavier and heavier. I also have a recording of crickets (part of his baby monitor) that I put on as a sleep cue, it only goes for 4 minutes but as soon as he hears it his eyes start drooping.

We have been persisting for a few weeks now. I have had to resettle for hours in the beginning, but now I rarely have to go back in. He doesnt make a sound.

If you are happy doing it, then I say keep persisting as eventually it will get a lot easier and bubs should be able to settle without much crying and resettle after the first 45 min sleep cycle. we used to have hysterics after 45 mins, now we have a wimper and he puts himself back to sleep.

Hannah just out of interst, how do you get Sam to sleep?? Do you rock him??

Me too, Hipster (I'd be interested to get some links if it was online that you were reading?)
I've kept well away from posting about it too, as I can't be bothered with the drama surrounding it.
It's a hard one to define, as everybody's way of doing things is so different.

I honestly didn't bring this up to be controversial - yesterday I was just at my wits end with his crying before bedtime and I really just wanted reassurance that others were doing a similar thing.

I had heard that 'control crying' wasn't a good thing for babies so young as Morgan, but I have also heard of this technique being taught at sleep schools with babies younger than Morgan.

He slept 3 hours after I originally posted here - so he was so tired - I just need to watch him like a hawk for those tired signs and avoid the crying in the first place.

It's funny - during the 'session' I felt bad - listening to him cry (wimper really, it was definately a sleepy cry), but I also knew he was so so tired and I know he is a healthy, well fed, clean bottomed, loved little boy - so I knew I wasn't doing it to 'hurt' him [this comment might be controversial - -sorry ...]

Hipster that is exactly why I have been pretty reluctant to admit how we settle Hayden, however it works wonders for us!!! He sleeps through the night with a little bit of quiet chatting at times and for 2 hour periods at a time during the day with very the occasional help from us after one sleep cycle.

This post describes what we do and in fact what we have done from day 8 - so way younger than Morgan.

The book Kalie (emm) sent around called Sleepsense does an excellent chapter on settling techniques similar to what we learnt at our day stay place.

Its been suggested to me about 3 times in the last couple of weeks, after getting up 8 times last night i am reconsidering the offer to go to a house stay program, but i think it was just the cold last night .

I don't see what the problem is with people wanting to try it, tresillian told me to do it when he was still newborn, however, there seems to be an age where it may be more appropriate to introduce, after 6 months old and also the time you leave your baby to cry, that may be where everyone disagrees ?

The reason after 6 months is, feeding problems have usually been sorted out by then, and perhaps you can distinguish the crying as not a call for food, tummy pain etc.

I still can't do, it seems the only help advice you get is to let your baby cry to some degree which i can't stand and if i was to do i would need some support.

OTT- my baby has never cried for a wet bum

Glad to hear that he went to sleep yesterday and had a great nap.

I would say what you have done is remove a sleep association (mummy rocking) not really controlled crying. They look for their sleep associations when they are overtired or not completely exhausted also when they wake at the end of the 1st sleep cycle. It may take a few days before he works out that Mummy is not going to rock him to sleep. You are doing a great job.

Maybe she does the same as me, constantly feeding to sleep during the night ?

sometimes you HAVE to let them cry for your own mental sanity as well.

i have done this with the girls before - i know that they are just crying cause they want to play still but it's bed time - i know that they are fed/clean/don't need a nappy change/aren't sick so sometimes they do have a little cry before they go to sleep but like you described it's a whingy cry - if they cry out cry out then there is something wrong iykwim

for example: last week at the start of daylight savings we had these 'battles' that lasted 90mins one night - every couple of minutes i would go in, re tuck (or re-wrap if you wrap), reassure, kiss goodnight, leave room - repeat as many times as it takes - it took a couple of days but now we're back to where we were before.

as others have said - if it's something you want then persist - like anything with kids if you want to do something you have to stick with it.

hang in there hun
xxxx

eta - coming upto 3mths there's another growth spurt as well - couple that with daylight savings where it's light outside and that could be contributing to things as well.

eta2 - with dad being sick lately as well he could be sensing those vibes and picking up on them - they're perceptive little critters

I think as long as you are listening to his cries, and you can decipher what you are hearing, and you are comfortable and secure in what you are doing, than it's ok.
I would never, ever leave a baby to cry if it is an emotional based cry, if there is anger, fear, confusion or anything similar in the cry than I would attend straight away.
If you have catered for all your childs needs, and made sure that they understand that they are safe, secure and that you are there if they NEED you, ie if they are angry or confused and if it is just a drone-y kind of, "I'm settling/trying to wind down to go to sleep" type whinge, then that's ok.
I would NEVER even consider doing Tizzie Hall's "deep end" method- where the baby is just put in the cot and you walk away, and don't return. That, is child abuse as far as I'm concerned.

Admittedly, I wouldn't do it on a bub under six months as they can't understand what is being asked of them , and for me I wasn't comfortable even letting Charlie whinge until he was over 10months. And even now, I pat him to sleep in his cot, but I guess it is a choice for each individual to make, and one that they should make in their child's best interest.

Em, I've been getting books out from the library - they sound so promising - written all over the front and back are 'Solve all your babies sleep problems, your baby will sleep through the night within 7 days' and so I read the book and it's pretty much CC and has very encouraging comments 'You can do it, don't let your baby win, you're the boss' etc which only confuses me even more!


And me too.


Oh, so that's why lots of people seem to hate Tizzie Hall!

That and she's a complete nutcase - she uses alias' in different forums to promote herself, and you pay $400 to have the privilege of emailing her, and she's not even the one replying, not that she'd tell you that.
I think she's a very insecure person. Don't know why, she has an extremely popular book published, but she's got all wierd about Sheyne Rowley so has set up www.theaustralianbabywhisperer.com as going to her website, when she knows well and good that Sheyne's is www.australianbabywhisperer.com.au.
Wierdo.

Oh how I despise Tizzy Hall.

Her assistant (alledgedly...LOL) set up a username on BellyBelly to infiltrate a negative discussion thread someonehad started on Tizzy Hall.
Next thing the site owner was getting posts from, Tizzy Hall herself (again, alledgedly) threatening legal action as her site was apparently defaming Tizzy Hall...pmsl...she truely IS a nutter, and I wouldnt buy anything of hers...I cannot believe how she can be an 'expert' when she hasnt even had children of her own....'pfffft' to her.

Just wondering, I don't think Sheyne has kids does she? Happy to be proven wrong, just wondering?
I know Gina Ford doesn't either.

Good point Em

;0

Usually I feed him to sleep.

I used to pat him to sleep on my lap but then realised I wasn't able to sleep doing that

So then I patted him to sleep in his bassinet or cot.

If he wants to sleep patting works but sometimes patting/feeding doesn't work so I just get him up and try and work out what's wrong. Usually if his cries escalate as I pat him and he refuses to feed it means he has a sore tummy or something so I just sit with him until he feels better then rewrap him up and start over.

I also rock him, I'll wrap him and just hold him and sway until he feels happier.

you'd be surprised how many 'experts' don't have children of their own - the nbr of clinic nurses and midwives i have met that are childless but tell you what to do is astounding.

hannah that's pretty much what i do as well - pat in their cots or if that doesn't work, pick up for a 5 sec cuddle and they're usually good to go then - i'll leave them be if it's the 'tired whingy' cries but we're so lucky *touch wood* with their sleeping.

there are so many different levels of CC - somethings just work for different kids and what works for one might not work for another.