Still fighting the sleep!, on from my other topic Options

[SmittenKitten]

Thanks to all the ladies last time for thier help re Millie fighting her sleep. Unfortunatly here it has not got any better. Worse in fact.

I settled her in her basinette for a few days (ssshh, rock pat sing etc) but it just didn;t last. Or maybe I didnt persist. She gets to the point where she is gasping for air she is crying so hard, its very distressing and I know she is also distressed.

Last few days, she just WONT go to sleep. Was up for about 12 hours yesterday. Screaming and carrying on unless she was being constantly rocked or in a pram being walked. She finally went to sleep last night at 11 for 3 lots of 2 hour blocks after 5 hours of trying to settle her. Everytime I sit with her ro walk her in the pram she will sleep and then when I get her into a deep sleep (or what i think is one) she will lie in her cot for maybe 10 mins before she is wide awake. If her dummy falls out, she cries. So pretty much unless she is being consistantly held by a person she cries and is impossible to settle!

HELP ME!!!!

[Woodland]

I would use a sling or baby bjorn and just accept that little Milly loves cuddles with Mummy for day sleeps at the moment. She wont stay like this forever so make life less stressful for you and her by going with the flow. I know A LOT of people that have done this for the first few months.

[Framboise]

Have you tried a white noise CD? I swear by them for getting my babies to settle. I had a week or so of taking 1-2 hours a night to settle Jamie whilst trying to find the CD. Finally found it and 5 mins after playing it he would be asleep.

[SmittenKitten]

I would use a sling or baby bjorn and just accept that little Milly loves cuddles with Mummy for day sleeps at the moment. She wont stay like this forever so make life less stressful for you and her by going with the flow. I know A LOT of people that have done this for the first few months.

I walk her in her swingy thing and she does like it but wont sleep in it unfortunatly. She is still a little too small for it!

Have you tried a white noise CD? I swear by them for getting my babies to settle. I had a week or so of taking 1-2 hours a night to settle Jamie whilst trying to find the CD. Finally found it and 5 mins after playing it he would be asleep.

Just got sent one today actually. We put it on and she screamed louder! She does love Rob Thomas though! Sometimes.....

[Bel_000]

I have no advice but my son is 4.5months and was like this initially. He was always good at night but I just couldn't get him to sleep in the day.

I figured out the bjorn worked for me so up til about 10-12 weeks he'd sleep in that for a morning sleep, then a pram walk for the arvo sleep. Rather annoying when it was raining or I didn't feel like pounding the pavement.

Even still, now to get him to sleep, I must lie down on my bed cuddling him before I can edge away and leave him there. Sorry, I know Im offering nothing helpful, but just letting you know you're not alone.

My advice would be to find what it is that DOES help her sleep (lying with you?) and just do that. My son sounds like yours - he seemed to go straight into the manic "emotional' cry when I put him down and I just cannot leave him to do that.

Good luck.. just remind yourself it won't last and she'll get better.

I have no advice but my son is 4.5months and was like this initially. He was always good at night but I just couldn't get him to sleep in the day.

I figured out the bjorn worked for me so up til about 10-12 weeks he'd sleep in that for a morning sleep, then a pram walk for the arvo sleep. Rather annoying when it was raining or I didn't feel like pounding the pavement.

Even still, now to get him to sleep, I must lie down on my bed cuddling him before I can edge away and leave him there. Sorry, I know Im offering nothing helpful, but just letting you know you're not alone.

My advice would be to find what it is that DOES help her sleep (lying with you?) and just do that. My son sounds like yours - he seemed to go straight into the manic "emotional' cry when I put him down and I just cannot leave him to do that.

Good luck.. just remind yourself it won't last and she'll get better.

ETA - I just read your other post.. have you thought about co sleeping at night? I didn't think I'd go down that path however when it meant I got 3-4 hours solid blocks of sleep at night I realised it was what worked for us. The first night in the hospital he was fussing a tad and I popped him next to me and he slept soundly. I realised then he just wanted to be close to me. I have 'weaned' him off it and only bring him into bed occasionally now which is more for me than him as I love it.

[Channy]

SK - Aidan started off ok, the by 4 weeks he was very much like your little your little girl. For us it was a combination of 2 things - one steaming from the other.

I had extreme anxiety (PND), this led to a drop in my BF supply. So Aidan was feeding off my anxiety (they definately sense how you are feeling) and also was hungry due to milk supply. He was so unsettled, it was heartbreaking to watch, he would just scream, stiff as a board. One day he did this for 10hours

I know that you are experiencing anxiety issues, can you contact a mother and baby unit? I know that this worked for us. He settled straight away and his sleeping has been awesome ever since. He became a happy, content bub - completely different child.

I hope this helps x

[SmittenKitten]

SK - Aidan started off ok, the by 4 weeks he was very much like your little your little girl. For us it was a combination of 2 things - one steaming from the other.

I had extreme anxiety (PND), this led to a drop in my BF supply. So Aidan was feeding off my anxiety (they definately sense how you are feeling) and also was hungry due to milk supply. He was so unsettled, it was heartbreaking to watch, he would just scream, stiff as a board. One day he did this for 10hours

I know that you are experiencing anxiety issues, can you contact a mother and baby unit? I know that this worked for us. He settled straight away and his sleeping has been awesome ever since. He became a happy, content bub - completely different child.

I hope this helps x

TBH - I have not had anxiety like whilst I was pregnant since the day I gave birth. I have actually for the most part been feeling terrific! (have had my days where I feel it may come crashing down, but this mainly due to being taken in ambo to hospy cos they thought I have a clot in my lung...) I have MORE then enough milk for her so she is full to the brim most of the time and can still manage to express good amounts as well. I have the contact details for a mother and baby unit, but really at this stage I am feeling like I don't need it! No meds and no psych at the moment and Im feeling good! All strategies are in place to go there should I need to but am taking it a day at a time. I just need my poor poppet to sleep. Thanks for your suggestion though

[Jaydee]

I found that Levi's sleeps were a huge shock to me, reflux aside.

I had this idea that he'd happily go to sleep in his cradle/cot, and it just didn't happen. While the reflux played a part, the biggest thing that helped me was realising that for 9 months + (overdue ) the only thing he'd known was me. So I would walk around with him in the sling, or cuddle him to sleep.

The way I figure it is that they've got years to 'learn' to go to sleep on their own. Levi-2yo currently goes to sleep by himself in his own room and sleeps all night. But in the meantime, she probably needs you to settle as that's all she's ever known and you make her feel safe!

TBH, and if you want to disregard this advice you can, IMO you should just let her snuggle herself to sleep at this point. You have PLENTY of time to 'teach' her to go to sleep on her own, but right now she's a newborn who knows that Mummy=safe. Don't put too much pressure on yourself re: the way babies "should" go to sleep Sooner or later she'll be a toddler who you have to tackle to get a cuddle

[Leapstar]

Hi Beth,

First of all huge hugs to you lovely. I really feel for you ATM as its a horrid thing you are going through.

OK my 2 cents worth.

Once you have eliminated hunger, wind etc from the equation, you will know that its simply a comfort issue.

For us in the early days Declan would settle better for sleeps on a full tummy. The time came later when he would settle without having been just fed. It might be worth it in the short term maybe trying to get her to sleep right after a feed, until at least she is getting some sleep and settling a little easier.
He was also one of those babies who went into an emotional cry really quickly and got very upset very quickly. What worked for me in the end was to hold him until he was really sleepy and then pop him down, if he got upset I would shhh pat him and try to calm him in his cot. If he was getting too worked up I would pick him up again and hold him and soothe him until he started getting very sleepy and try again. I would try for about an hour and if he was still getting upset, I would give in and take him into my room and sleep with him so we both would get some sleep.

If he did drift off in his cot and then woke up again and cried out I would respond to him quickly and try and avert him getting too worked up. As soon as I heard a noise out of him I would be back in his room in a flash and would initally try and comfort him again in his cot and if he didn't settle I would pick him up again and start again all over.

For him I think he needed to understand that even though I was putting him down to sleep somewhere that was not on me, that I was there for him straight away if he needed me and he slowly learnt to trust sleeping somewhere else. The biggest key I felt to this was never, if I could help it, to let him get to the upset point in his cries.

Another thing that helped him was I stopped wrapping him. He would fight the wrap as soon as I put him in it and in the end instead of helping him sleep, it just added too much distress to him and was more counter productive. BUT if you aren't wrapping her, this may be worth a try as it may give her some additional comfort.

[Renee`]

IMO, No way, would I be leaving my child in a bassinette or a cot when they are gasping for air hysterical, or anywhere near close tothat. As mentioned earlier, they have years to sleep. Obviously the sleep deprivation for you and her are an issue, so maybe to regain some strength, you should just NOT put her into the cot when she has nodded off. Try Co-sleeping.

Your daughter is trying to tell you something is wrong. And if she is not hungry, she could have a bit of reflux (Silent even) a chiropractor may be an opition, she may be in a bit of pain in other ways. Or, she just wants to be with her mum, considering- she was with you 24/7 for 9 months and now all of a sudden she is expected to just be seperated from you.

[aChocLover]

(((Hugs)))

I agree with Jaydee. Unfortunately I have a 4yo who still struggles with sleep and will occasionally cosleep with us. Drives me up the wall sometimes, but I don't have the energy to fight it and in time, I'm sure it will sort itself out....

This bit -

She finally went to sleep last night at 11 for 3 lots of 2 hour blocks after 5 hours of trying to settle her. Everytime I sit with her ro walk her in the pram she will sleep and then when I get her into a deep sleep (or what i think is one) she will lie in her cot for maybe 10 mins before she is wide awake.

HELP ME!!!!

(my bold) stood out for me.

Are you actually relocating her once she's asleep? From what I've always understood with children sleeping is if they don't go to sleep and wake in the same environment, they panic/get upset. So, do you think that the different smells/surrounds is waking her and then her screaming might be the alarm/panic of not knowing where she is (that is, "this is not where I went to sleep, where am I, I'm alone, where's my mummy??!")?

Just an alternative thought

Hope she settles soon for you!

[~Melissa~]

I think at this age - cuddling them off to sleep is fine! We did it with both our boys till they fought it at around 6 months and then we found other ways to settle them.

However, if you are cuddling them to sleep you have to wait a fair while before you attempt to put them down or relocate them. It takes longer than you might think before you can get them into a deep sleep. I think sleep school told us wait 30 minutes before putting them down. You still might only get 40 minutes - but its better than sneaking out and only getting another minute or two.

We alternated doing that with just cuddling with them on the bed for the whole sleep. I also did a fair amount of co-sleeping for the first 6 months and that helped as well.

FWIW - even after co-sleeping and cuddling to sleep early on, both my boys now consistently self settle and sleep through the night.

[Jaydee]

(((Hugs)))

I agree with Jaydee. Unfortunately I have a 4yo who still struggles with sleep and will occasionally cosleep with us. Drives me up the wall sometimes, but I don't have the energy to fight it and in time, I'm sure it will sort itself out....

This bit -
(my bold) stood out for me.

Are you actually relocating her once she's asleep? From what I've always understood with children sleeping is if they don't go to sleep and wake in the same environment, they panic/get upset. So, do you think that the different smells/surrounds is waking her and then her screaming might be the alarm/panic of not knowing where she is (that is, "this is not where I went to sleep, where am I, I'm alone, where's my mummy??!")?

Just an alternative thought

Hope she settles soon for you!

Just to add to this, I've read somewhere that relocating them once asleep would be like you going to sleep in your bed all snuggled up to your DH...and then waking up on the lounge room floor. You'd get all worried and upset, and fight going back to sleep in case it happened again.

At the moment I'd really suggest co-sleeping if that's an option for you- I found we ALL got a better sleep that way, and they cried much less during the day as well.

[Em-Jay]

Have you had Millie checked out for reflux or something similar? Emily was like that from about 2-3 weeks, just screaming and screaming and hardly sleeping and at 6 weeks we found out it was bad reflux. Once her medication was sorted at 4 months she was like a different baby!! We even have photos that we took of her sleeping in her cot at 4 months because it was the first time she had slept longer than an hour

With Riley he is different, so we have been encouraging him to self settle from the start, so putting him to sleep in his cot where we expect him to wake up, putting him down awake, letting him protest a bit but going in to cuddle if he is upset..... I don't co-sleep though so for me that's no option Maybe it is for you

[SmittenKitten]

Thanks for the suggestions. Co-sleeping is not an option for us so will not be doing that.

Have done some self settling in her basinette last couple of days and tis worked really well. With the shh, patting etc. It takes a while but she gets there. I dont let her cry for longer then 2 mins (Im happy to do that dispite others thinking tis the wrong thing...) She generally only just grizzles though and wont really cry if she does I pick her up immediatly! To which she goes back to sleep! Cheeky miss!! Sleep deprivation is not and issue for us at all. Just co-sleeping is not on the cards.

We bought some infacol for her wind, So am hoping this helps!

She was out of this routine yesterday because her sleep time was during mothers group and was totally out of whack, thus today its been harder to get her back to sleep and she fought the sleep last night. So I know its working!